Author Topic: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values  (Read 17013 times)

Offline shibli

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The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« on: August 02, 2009, 12:35:52 PM »
Concept of peace, ethics and human values is useless without the concept of hereafter:
Is robbing a good or an evil act? A normal balanced person would say it is evil. How would a person who does not believe in the hereafter (life after death) convince a powerful and influential criminal that robbing is evil? Suppose I am the most powerful and influential criminal in the world. At the same time I am an Intelligent and a logical person. I say that robbing is good because it helps me lead a luxurious life. Thus robbing is good for me. If anybody can put forward a single logical argument as to why it is evil for me, I will stop immediately. People usually put forward the following arguments:

a. The person who is robbed will face difficulties
Some may say that the person who is robbed will face difficulties. I certainly agree that it is bad for the person who is robbed. But it is good for me. If I rob a thousand dollars, I can enjoy a good meal at a 5 star restaurant.

b. Some one may rob you
Some people argue that someday I may be robbed. No one can rob me because I am a very powerful criminal and I have hundreds of bodyguards. I can rob anybody but nobody can rob me. Robbing may be a risky profession for a common man but not for an influential person like me.

c. The police may arrest you
Some may say, if you rob, you can be arrested by the police. The police cannot arrest me because I have the police on my payroll. I have the ministers on my payroll. I agree that if a common man robs, he will be arrested and it will be bad for him, but I am an extraordinarily influential and powerful criminal. Give me one logical reason why it is bad for me and I will stop robbing.

d. It’s easy money
Some may say it’s easy money and not hard-earned money. I agree completely that it is easy money, and that is one of the main reasons why I rob. If a person has the option of earning money the easy as well as the hard way, any logical person would choose the easy way.

e. It is against humanity
Some may say it is against humanity and that a person should care for other human beings. I counter argue by asking as to who wrote this law called ‘humanity’ and why should I follow it? This law may be good for the emotional and sentimental people but I am a logical person and I see no benefit in caring for other human beings.

f. It is a selfish act
Some may say that robbing is being selfish. It is true that robbing is a selfish act; but then why should I not be selfish? It helps me enjoy life.

i) No logical reason for robbing being an evil act
Hence all arguments that attempt to prove that robbing is an evil act are futile. These arguments may satisfy a common man but not a powerful and influential criminal like me. None of the arguments can be defended on the strength of reason and logic. It is no surprise that there are so many criminals in this world. Similarly raping, cheating etc. can be justified as good for a person like me and there is no logical argument that can convince me that these things are bad.

ii) A Muslim can convince a powerful and influential criminal
Now let us switch sides. Suppose you are the most powerful and influential criminal in the world, who has the police and the ministers on his payroll. You have army of thugs to protect you. But a Muslim can convince you that robbing, raping, cheating, etc. are evil acts. Even if the same arguments to prove that robbing is evil are put forth, the criminal will respond the same way as s/he did earlier. All his or her arguments are true only when s/he is the most powerful and influential criminal.

iii) Every human being wants justice
Even if s/he does not want justice for others s/he wants justice for himself. Some people are intoxicated by power and influence and inflict pain and suffering on others. The same people, however, would surely object if some injustice was done to them. The reason such people become insensitive to the sufferings of others is that they worship power and influence. Power and influence, they feel, not only allow them to inflict injustice on others but also prevent others from doing likewise to them.

iv) God is the Most Powerful and Just
The Qur’an says: “Allah is never unjust in the least degree” [Al-Qur’an 4:40]

v) Why does God not punish me?
The criminal, being a logical and scientific person, agrees that God exists, after being presented with scientific facts from the Qur’an. He may argue as to why God, if He is Powerful and Just, does not punish him.

vi) The people who do injustice should be punished
Every person who has suffered injustice, irrespective of financial or social status, almost certainly wants the perpetrator of injustice to be punished. Every normal person would like the robber or the rapist to be taught a lesson. Though a large number of criminals are punished, many even go scot-free. They lead a pleasant, luxurious life, and even enjoy a peaceful existence. If injustice is done to a powerful and influential person, by someone more powerful and more influential than he, even such a person would want that person perpetrators of injustice to be punished.

vii) This life is a test for the hereafter
This life is a test for the hereafter. [Al-Qur’an 67:2]

viii) Final justice on the day of judgement
Final justice will be meted out on the Day of Judgement. After a person dies, s/he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement along with the rest of mankind. It is possible that a person receives part of his punishment in this world. The final reward and punishment will only be in the hereafter. God Almighty may not punish a robber or a rapist in this world but he will surely be held accountable on the Day of Judgement and will be punished in the hereafter i.e. life after death.

ix) What punishment can the human law give Hitler?
Hitler incinerated six million Jews during his reign of terror. Even if the police had arrested him, what punishment can the human law give Hitler for justice to prevail? The most they can do is to send Hitler to the gas chamber. But that will only be punishment for the killing of one Jew. What about the remaining five million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine Jews?

x) Allah can burn Hitler more than six million times in hellfire
If Allah wishes He can incinerate Hitler six million times in the hereafter in the hellfire. It is clear that without convincing a person about the hereafter, i.e. life after death, the concept of human values and the good or evil nature of acts is impossible to prove to any person who is doing injustice especially when he is influential and powerful.

Dr. Zakir Naik
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 02:19:22 PM by shibli »
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 02:09:28 PM »
Can anyone tell me how we can educate the corrupted politicians on ethics if he or she doesn't believe in GOD at all?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 02:11:23 PM by shibli »
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline mir

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 12:14:36 PM »
I guess there is no certain ethical standards and moral values. It changes over social and geographical even on religious aspects.

But one thing is accepted worldwide that human must be ethical on his personal and social perspective.

Quest for peace is a journey which unfortunately often been interrupted by religious discriminant values! History talks.

Well, its very easy to teach the ethical issues to our politicians. We ourselves need to be ethical on our own personal life. That's the beginning....

Masud I Rahman

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 01:04:51 PM »
"I guess there is no certain ethical standards and moral values. It changes over social and geographical even on religious aspects." Yes i agree with your statement except in the case of the holy Qur'an.

Earlier homosexuality was prohibited in many countries. Today it is allowed in many developed countries like in the UK. Pornography is also allowed in many countries nowadays. My question is where we shall draw the line or put the benchmark. So we need to follow the guidelines set by the Almighty. The Qur'an, the last n final testament from God has maintained the same original form ever since it was revealed. "No other book in the earth keeps the original pure form as The Qur'an." said by the orientalist, famous historian and harsh critic of Islam, William Moore. Before the Second world War in the museum of Germany, hundreds of different copies of Qur'an of different times were collected to verify their verses. All the words of all copies were found word for word exact n accurate. No other book in the earth is as recited n memorized as the Qur'an. Millions of people have been memorizing it ever since it was revealed. At least every year millions of people across the world have been verifying it in the TARABEEH. The Qur'an is not a book of science, rather it's a book of signs; in fact it is the miracle of all miracles.  

However, my question is why should we be ethical? For the sake of humanity? Who introduced the term humanity or humanism? Why should we be humane? For our own satisfaction!! Degeneration will occur if there is no belief in God. Ethics without religious values are useless. You talked about religious discriminant values. It is because people of different religions hardly read and follow their scriptures. please don't look at the followers, rather let's go back to the scriptures. Jesus(pbuh) never claimed divinity, rather he said, "I cast out devil with the spirit of GOD","My father is greater than I" but most Christians believe in trinity; father, son n holy spirit. Buddah never said "make a statue of me or worship me but Buddhists are doing as such. According to Bedha, there is no image of God, no protima but Hindus are doing the opposite.

Most importantly, politicians of the world for their personal gain and media supported by them divide people and create mischief on this earth. History also says that the so-called secularism n communism could not bring peace n prosperity to certain countries n nations.

The glorious Qur'an has got the solutions to the problems of humanity. Let's study more and more, shouldn't we?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 12:12:23 PM by shibli »
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2009, 06:46:25 PM »
 What we refer to as "moral values" are the concepts introduced by religion that make life beautiful and rewarding. Whenever these values are distorted, we face a really disturbing picture in society.
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2009, 06:49:54 PM »
 A Society that lives by islamic moral values is built on the foundations of LOVE AND COMPASSION. The only escape from the corruption and oppression caused by irreligion is to live by the compassion taught by Allah in the Qur’an and strongly advised by our Prophet (saas).
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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Scientists r turning to God
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 02:51:50 PM »
THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS TURNING TO GOD

"As people have certainly been influenced by me, I want to try and correct the enormous damage I may have done." (Anthony Flew)
 
The newspapers these days are echoing with these regret-filled words by Anthony Flew, in his time a well-known atheist philosopher. The 81-year-old British professor of philosophy Flew chose to become an atheist at the age of 15, and first made a name for himself in the academic field with a paper published in 1950. In the 54 years that followed, he defended atheism as a teacher at the universities of Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele and Reading, at many American and Canadian universities he visited, in debates, books, lecture halls and articles. In recent days, however, Flew has announced that he has abandoned this error and accepts that the universe was created.
 
The decisive factor in this radical change of view is the clear and definitive evidence revealed by science on the subject of creation. Flew realised, in the face of the information-based complexity of life, that the true origin of life is intelligent design and that the atheism he had espoused for 66 years was a discredited philosophy.
 
Flew announced the scientific reasons underlying this change in belief in these terms:

    "Biologists' investigation of DNA has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce [life], that intelligence must have been involved." (1)
   
    "It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism." (2)
   
    "I have been persuaded that it is simply out of the question that the first living matter evolved out of dead matter and then developed into an extraordinarily complicated creature." (3)

The DNA research which Flew cites as a fundamental reason for his change of opinion has indeed revealed striking facts about creation. The helix shape of the DNA molecule, its possession of the genetic code, the nucleotide strings that refute blind chance, the storage of encyclopaedic quantities of information and many other striking findings have revealed that the structure and functions of this molecule were arranged for life with a special design. Comments by scientists concerned with DNA research bear witness to this fact.
 
Francis Crick, for instance, one of the scientists who revealed the helix shape of DNA admitted in the face of the findings regarding DNA that the origin of life indicated a miracle:

    An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going. (4)

Based on his calculations, Led Adleman of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles has stated that one gram of DNA can store as much information as a trillion compact discs. (5) Gene Myers, a scientist employed on the Human Genome Project, has said the following in the face of the miraculous arrangements he witnessed:

    "What really astounds me is the architecture of life… The system is extremely complex. It's like it was designed… There's a huge intelligence there." (6)

The most striking fact about DNA is that the existence of the coded genetic information can definitely not be explained in terms of matter and energy or natural laws. Dr. Werner Gitt, a professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology, has said this on the subject:

    A code system is always the result of a mental process… It should be emphasized that matter as such is unable to generate any code. All experiences indicate that a thinking being voluntarily exercising his own free will, cognition, and creativity, is required… There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information, neither is any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this. (7)

Creationist scientists and philosophers played a major role in Flew's acceptance of intelligent design, backed up by all these findings. In recent times Flew participated in debates with scientists and philosophers who were proponents of creation, and exchanged ideas with them.
 
The final turning point in that process was a discussion organised by the Institute for Metascientific Research in Texas in May, 2003. Flew participated together with author Roy Abraham Varghese, Israeli physicist and molecular biologist Gerald Schroeder, and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane. Flew was impressed by the weight of the scientific evidence in favour of creation and by the convincing nature of his opponents' arguments, and abandoned atheism as an idea in the period following that discussion. In a letter he wrote for the August-September, 2003, edition of the British magazine Philosophy Now, he recommended Schroeder's book "The Hidden Face of God: Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth" and Varghese's book "The Wonderful World."(Cool During an interview with the professor of philosophy and theology Gary R. Habermas, who also played a major role in his change of mind (9), and also on the video "Has Science Discovered God?," he openly stated that he believed in intelligent design.
 
The "Intelligence Pervading the Universe" and the Collapse of Atheism
 
In the face of all the scientific developments outlined above, the acceptance of intelligent design by Antony Flew, famous for defending atheism for many years, reflects a final scene in the process of collapse being undergone by atheism. Modern science has revealed the existence of an "intelligence pervading the universe," thus leaving atheism out of the equation.
 
In his book "The Hidden Face of God," Gerald Schroeder, one of the creationist scientists who influenced Flew, writes:

    "A single consciousness, a universal wisdom, pervades the universe. The discoveries of science, those that search the quantum nature of subatomic matter, have moved us to the brink of a startling realization: all existence is the expression of this wisdom. In the laboratories we experience it as information that first physically articulated as energy and then condensed into the form of matter. Every particle, every being, from atom to human, appears to represent a level of information, of wisdom." (10)

Scientific research into both the functioning of the cell and the subatomic particles of matter has revealed this fact in an indisputable manner:
Life and the universe were brought into being from nothing by the will of an entity possessed of a superior mind and wisdom. There is no doubt that the possessor of that knowledge and mind that pervade the universe at all levels is Almighty Allah. Allah reveals this truth in the Qur'an:
 
Both East and West belong to Allah, so wherever you turn, the Face of Allah is there. Allah is All-Encompassing, All-Knowing." (Qur'an, 2:115)

___________________________________________
i Richard N. Ostling, "Lifelong atheist changes mind about divine creator," The Washington Times 10 December 2004; http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041209-113212-2782r.htm
2- Antony Flew, "Letter from Antony Flew on Darwinism and Theology," Philosophy Now; http://www.philosophynow.org/issue47/47flew.htm
3- Stuart Wavell and Will Iredale, "Sorry, says atheist-in-chief, I do believe in God after all," The Sunday Times, 12 December 2004; http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1400368,00.html
4- Francis Crick, Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature, New York: Simon & Schuster, 1981, p. 88
5- John Whitfield, "Physicists plunder life's tool chest", 24 April 2003; http://www.nature.com/nsu/030421/030421-6.html
6- San Francisco Chronicle, 19 February, 2001
7- Werner Gitt, In the Beginning Was Information, CLV, Bielenfeld, Germany, pp. 64-7, 79
8- Antony Flew, "Letter from Antony Flew on Darwinism and Theology," Philosophy Now; http://www.philosophynow.org/issue47/47flew.htm
9- "Atheist Becomes Theist: Exclusive Interview with Former Atheist Antony Flew;" http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/index.cfm
10- Gerald Schroeder, The Hidden Face of God, Touchstone, New York, 2001, p. xi
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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The concept of ethics
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 12:56:26 PM »
Is it ethical for a full-time employee to work elsewhere during office hours or be involved in activities that do not benefit his or her own workplace at all or serve any other organization just to gain some extra financial benefits?  
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 02:59:50 PM by shibli »
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline Mustafizur rRhman

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2010, 11:52:26 AM »
I don't think God is important to become a good person. People do not become good only out of fear, nor even  for any reward.It depends on his/her set of mind and sorrounding circumstances.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 01:21:19 PM »
Dear Mustafiz

'Fear' is a wrong wording or misinterpretation. The correct translation is God's consciousness and piety. yes circumference or environment is also necessary. That's why Allah urged us to be in a group and not to be separated. About set of mind, parents can play a vital role in molding the set of mind of a child that reflects in his or her future or matured life.

I have seen one of my previous colleagues who was an atheist suffered fatal disease for almost two years, left the hope of living. Finally i heard her uttering the name of Allah. I found another atheist colleague suffering for dengue and  remembering Allah. So Allah is in the mind of each and every human being. The need for spirituality is always there for human beings. Lots of books and researches have been carried out and are being done on the necessity of spirituality.  
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 01:24:36 PM by shibli »
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline Mustafizur rRhman

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2010, 01:28:34 PM »
Love and only love can make everything possible.Out of love one can become good and this is the love that can make one the worst.So human should love and be loved.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 02:02:06 PM »
Dear Sameen
The concept of love and humanism is nothing new. It's already there in the Qur'an and Sahih Hadith. A Society that lives by Islamic moral values is built on the foundations of LOVE AND COMPASSION. The only escape from the corruption and oppression caused by irreligion is to live by the compassion taught by Allah in the Qur’an and strongly advised by our Prophet (saas)

"They (the true believers) give food, out of love for Allah, to the poor, the orphan and the slave, saying: We feed you only for Allah's pleasure - we desire from you neither reward nor thanks." Al Qur'an (76:8-9)

Those who believe in Allah n the Last Judgment Day should either utter good words or keep silence, should treat their neighbors with kindness n show hospitality. Sahih Hadith

Why is religion necessary to be moral? Because you have to draw the line somewhere along the way. People of different ages tend to change the concept of ethics over the time. If you please go through all the posts given here, you will get the answers.

Regards
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 03:38:35 PM by shibli »
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 02:37:21 PM »
Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance." Sir Isaac Newton
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2010, 02:37:58 PM »
"Americans are on a spiritual journey, increasingly concerned with the meaning of life and issues of the soul and spirit. They r increasingly looking to religion as a source of comfort in a chaotic world"_Philip Kotler n Gary Armstrong, Principles of Marketing 12th Ed, Page 89
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

Offline shibli

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Re: The concept of ethics is useless without religious values
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2010, 02:57:17 PM »
"A little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God." Francis Bacon, famous philosopher.

"Soon I will show them my signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
Those who worship the natural elements enter darkness (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). Those who worship sambhuti sink deeper in darkness. [Yajurveda 40:9]; Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.